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Goofing off-Why not put 100 dollars on the Field and see what happens.Enjoy all the random betting! Craps is found in all Las Vegas casinos that have more than a handful of table games. The rules are generally the same from one casino to another except for the odds permitted online bets and whether the Field pays double or triple on 12.

Zcore13

Strange things happen around slot techs. I've had three experiences that give me pause to what they can do. Logic says they should have no control on a result, but it's happened enough over the years to make me wonder.


Every slot I've seen is purposely made so there is no chance of slot tech manipulation other that paytables.
Almost every slot tech I have known would be incapable of figuring out any type of workaround. These are generally low paying jobs with very little previous education or knowledge needed to start.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
DRich
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Every slot I've seen is purposely made so there is no chance of slot tech manipulation other that paytables.
Almost every slot tech I have known would be incapable of figuring out any type of workaround. These are generally low paying jobs with very little previous education or knowledge needed to start.
ZCore13


As a person that has designed and programmed many slot machines, my perspective is that most slot techs have no idea how things really work. I don't mean to isolate slot techs, in general most casino employees know only about one tenth of what they think they know.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
darkoz

Hmmm, so his claim of magnets and magic moving dice when the tech came are most likely false. More conspiracy thwarted.
ZCore13

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I never said magnets nor magic
I said it appeared to like a magician would make an object move on its own. Obviously a trick caused by something other than magic
And once again I said RFID. Not magnets. That was someone else
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
OnceDear
Administrator

This was my experience with a 'Shoot To Win' machine in Nevada. One die would lay up on an edge against the bubble. The machine would lock up until a tech came to open the cabinet, and reset it. He didn't open the bubble, but appeared to put the machine into a 'reset' mode that triggered the servos to bounce the floor a few times.
My guess is that the dice are read via OCR and not RFID because reading two dice accurately via RFID would be very tricky due to the use of a shaking platform that would have to contain the sensors.

Oh hell, yeah. I'd forgotten there are two dice to read. That's definitely going to be optical. If a crappy phone can read a QR code and a cash register can read 50 crappy assorted barcodes a minute, then reading 2 to 12 pips optically would be a cinche.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed.
OnceDear
Administrator

I never said magnets nor magic
I said it appeared to like a magician would make an object move on its own. Obviously a trick caused by something other than magic
And once again I said RFID. Not magnets. That was someone else


You strongly implied that a computer or mechanism in the machine could impart controlling actions on the dice. RFID COULD explain how the dice is read, but unless the dice are fitted with magnets or tiny retro rockets, you've given no hint to how motion was imparted.
Bubble craps machine for saleA vibrating servo, or rapid puff of air or a big mama of an elecro magnet could have been controlled by that button just to get the dice out of it's inappropriate position. No cheat feature implied by that.
The ladies IPAD could maybe have been modified and used to dazzle or confuse the die reading optics, to make it read and report dice incorrectly.. But I doubt it.

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Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed.
OnceDear
Administrator

As a person that has designed and programmed many slot machines, my perspective is that most slot techs have no idea how things really work. I don't mean to isolate slot techs, in general most casino employees know only about one tenth of what they think they know.

Exactly. 'If the die gets stuck, you are not to mess about with the bubble or dice. Just whack this button till the dice falls away' would be pretty much his job description. That or 'turn it off and back on again'
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed.
billryan

As a person that has designed and programmed many slot machines, my perspective is that most slot techs have no idea how things really work. I don't mean to isolate slot techs, in general most casino employees know only about one tenth of what they think they know.


I fully understand your arguments, but in the light of these events, it is hard to fully accept them.
1) Sands Casino AC- I'm playing a WOF game that when you hit the bonus, a screen is supposed to appear and you choose one of three wheels. The wheel says 1-5 spins. In this game, the screen was skipped and I only got one spin. After concluding the bonus, I read the rules and was pretty sure I was right. Another bonus came along and instead of playing it, I called a slot attendant. She read the rules and called a slot tech. We explained what happened and he worked on the machine a few minutes. Said he had to take the game offline after I did my bonus spin. I was playing 27 nickels( 3 per line) and the spin awarded 25-1000 times your line bet.
Wheel spun and ended on the 1,000 coin slot. The only time it ever happened.
2) At a bar in Vegas. Guy comes in and tells me I have to move to the other side of the bar. He needs change several machines right in a row. We talk a bit and he tells me he left me something on the machine. I see he left ten credits for me. First spin I get a dealt full house. Coincidence? Perhaps? but it does make me go hmmmm.
darkoz

You strongly implied that a computer or mechanism in the machine could impart controlling actions on the dice. RFID COULD explain how the dice is read, but unless the dice are fitted with magnets or tiny retro rockets, you've given no hint to how motion was imparted.
A vibrating servo, or rapid puff of air or a big mama of an elecro magnet could have been controlled by that button just to get the dice out of it's inappropriate position. No cheat feature implied by that.
The ladies IPAD could maybe have been modified and used to dazzle or confuse the die reading optics, to make it read and report dice incorrectly.. But I doubt it.


I still imply that
I just dont think its magnets
Im no specialist in this area so not sure what it could be. However I dabbled in both magic tricks and film-making (an art of illusion) and you will be surprised what the least apparent answer usually is
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
UPDATE/CORRECTION
After several PMs with Axel it may be that the NY AP move is possible due to class III status
We both agree its difficult to determine if thats the case and based on his longer tenure and experience in this matter I demure to his expertise
He also approved me discussing our PMs here
If I got anything wrong in that statement Axel let me know (I know you will)

Bubble Craps Machine

Ayecarumba
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Oh hell, yeah. I'd forgotten there are two dice to read. That's definitely going to be optical. If a crappy phone can read a QR code and a cash register can read 50 crappy assorted barcodes a minute, then reading 2 to 12 pips optically would be a cinche.


Aruze has a patent on a system that places two RFID loop antennas in the shaker table to detect the faces that are contacting the surface:
I wonder how these are holding up? With parts shaking all the time, the service intervals must be fairly frequent.
This system also sheds light on the report of the lady with the iPad getting perp walked out. RFID readers/transmitters are used by car thieves to enter and start keyless automobiles. While I don't know of any specific weakness, this system could be vulnerable to spoofing as well.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018, @MeltzVegas was at the 2018 G2Eshow and spotted this. A new electronic craps table. Always on the ball, he made a video and posted it on Twitter.

And here’s a picture of the betting terminal:

Later, @Eric_Ramsey tweeted this: There was a lot of cool shit at #G2E2018, and this was by far one of the coolest things I saw.

Reaction

Here’s some of the reaction on Twitter:

Vegas Confessions (@Vegasconfesspod) asked: Could this be the future of craps?

Cousin Vito’s Casino(@VitosCasino) chimed in: The future of low limit craps? It’s basically a 16 person stadium gaming table for craps. One mindless dealer, low limits, and an arbitrary countdown clock… I’d try at a $5 minimum.

@Siedlecki_B: I saw this at the convention. A guy walked up, threw the dice in an odd manner (essentially gliding them across the glass table), hit 11, got the dice back, same throwing motion and got 11 again. Looked the dealer and said “See your flaw here?” And walked away. Total savage move.

@Snickers99poker: Not me. I’m a low roller and I’d play a $10 ‘real’ table before I’d play a $5 electric table. Or not play at all. Takes all the fun out. Kills jobs. Can you place odds?

Cousin Vito’s Casino (@VitosCasino): If the payouts are all the same and lets say only $15 or $25 tables are open… would you play the $5 electronic table?

@_Absolute0: Not play. I can even see myself walking up and playing dumb and then “finding out” there wasn’t a human dealer and walking away. Just to dickishly get my point across.

@Snickers99poker: Easy choice for me.not play. $15 too high for me & I don’t want to play a video game.

Vital Vegas (@VitalVegas): I gotta say, if this every becomes prevalent at Vegas casinos, it will fundamentally change the way I view and interact with Las Vegas. I probably wouldn’t live here or write about it anymore. Almost happened with liquor brand swapping, but I suspect I’d be done. Abomination.

@russmaloney: I can’t see the long-term benefit. Even if experienced players are okay with it, human craps dealers actually help new players make correct bets, inform on side bets, etc. Whatever money the casinos save in not having dealers they may lose in not getting new players.

@gamblinmcgoo: The action seems too slow with the count down to no more bets. A good crew can keep the dice moving at twice the speed.

Job Loss?

On the possibility of craps dealers losing their jobs (well, let’s not kid ourselves, there will be jobs lost…it’s not a possibility):

@Snickers99poker: And I’m assuming any dealer can run that table so you lose the personality of craps dealers.the interaction between you and them as knowledgeable craps people and nobody to ask questions to (like a first time player).

@funnykeithlyle: Yep. Don’t even need to know the game. Just give the shooter the dice. No need for supervisor. And no tips. People will play it because it has the same feel as a real dice game. Plus, no one gets in the way with late bets.

Faces And Aces Las Vegas (@FacesAndAcesLV): Sadly it will mean fewer jobs, and human interaction is a big part of the Vegas experience.

@_Absolute0: This. I play just as much for the human interaction as actual gambling. And working in the service industry am sensitive to the fact a real person is being replaced. I refuse to even use self checkout at the grocery. Just because a job can be automated doesn’t mean it should be.

Faces And Aces Las Vegas (@FacesAndAcesLV): The strip is moving towards automation (valet ticket machine, self check in kisoks, robot bartenders, virtual blackjack, etc). Ultimately, it depends on the popularity of the machine, but yeah, I can see this as the future of Vegas.

@Snickers99poker: Part of the problem is most casinos have shareholders to please. So they’ll go for the short term boost to the quarterly numbers and worry later. Gotta keep that stock price up!

Not The First

And this isn’t the first attempt at electronic craps:

@gamblinmcgoo: They had almost exactly the same setup at Bill’s about 8 years ago. Real table with felt, real dice and video terminals. It was frustrating to play as the action was slow and one dealer handling buy ins and cash out. Lasted about a year.

We are not a fan. As mentioned, handling and making bets with real chips, plus the interaction with actual craps dealers, is part of why we love craps so much. Reminds us of those electronic poker tables they tried before.

We felt the same about these. It looks cool and everything, but we go to the casino to handle the cards and play with real chips. Does any casino still have these?

Thanks to Marc Meltzer for letting us post his video of the craps table. The guy knows Las Vegas. Follow him at @MeltzVegas for the latest information on Las Vegas and cool pictures.

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